Author Topic: White Sox - Trades and Rumors (Read 105691 times)

BlackSox · « **Reply #400 on:** December 06, 2011, 12:36:18 pm »

Jim Callis is on the radio now.

He said he rated Nestor as the BJs #18 prospect, but would rate him #2 for the White Sox.

Now that there's a disparity in prospects.

Method · « **Reply #401 on:** December 06, 2011, 12:37:17 pm »

by the time JR lets kendry go... we'd be lucky to end up in the shape the pirates were 2 years ago.

WshflThinking · « **Reply #402 on:** December 06, 2011, 01:12:13 pm »

Ah, I see Nestor the molestor.

Fury · « **Reply #403 on:** December 06, 2011, 01:20:01 pm »

I've got the 2012 White Sox publicity tagline:

"Bring On The Pain"

BlackSox · « **Reply #404 on:** December 06, 2011, 02:12:37 pm »

coupla things to read:

http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/12/6/2615759/the-white-sox-rebuilding-process-begins

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/white-sox-trade-santos-start-the-rebuild-process/

BlackSox · « **Reply #405 on:** December 06, 2011, 02:14:10 pm »

Heh:

Favorite anagrams for Nestor Molina: A Silent Moron, Melon Rations, Moon Latrines, Ten Monorails.

http://twitter.com/jimmargalus

BillSharp · « **Reply #406 on:** December 06, 2011, 05:12:02 pm »

This means Kenny is in full rebuild mode, he want's the Sox to be a playoff team when Dunn's contract expires.

Method · « **Reply #407 on:** December 06, 2011, 06:34:27 pm »

I have had more time to think on it... and i still just dont get it. This is from Keith Law.

With the deal that sends Chicago White Sox reliever Sergio Santos to Toronto for Blue Jays prospect Nestor Molina, the Jays trade maybe their sixth-best pitching prospect for a very effective short reliever (whom they had previously when he was still a position player). This should take Toronto out of the market for free-agent closers, most of whom end up overpaid thanks to the winner's curse and the short peaks of most relievers' careers. The White Sox, on the other hand, get an extreme control right-hander without much of a breaking ball who could be a dominant two-pitch reliever, but is probably a year away from seriously contributing in the majors.

So we just traded a major league closer for a guy that might end up being keith foulke without the change up? Why not keep the really cheap and proven MLB closer for the same job... If you are going to trade santos... why only get back a fringe starter/reilver in return? i can see Nester being a throwin to trading santos... but not the one and only piece.. they needed to get back atleast a top 25 position player and this dude for santos..

Even if we are in rebuilding mode... he was cheap for the next few years... could have traded him for more down the road imho... and we lost ozzie to keep kendry...

WshflThinking · « **Reply #408 on:** December 06, 2011, 06:49:39 pm »

Baltimore has several young pitchers on their staff who fit the profile that Sox GM Ken Williams seeks in any deal for any of his veteran players.

Those pitchers include left-hander Brian Matusz, Jake Arrieta, Zach Britton and Chris Tillman.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-duquette-confirms-baltimores-talks-with-sox-20111206,0,3318528.story

From the stats listed I wouldnt want any of those guys

aka Loveland · « **Reply #409 on:** December 06, 2011, 08:14:04 pm »

A bird in the hand is worth two in the minors. ...

Method · « **Reply #410 on:** December 06, 2011, 08:33:29 pm »

Indeed... so why this trade...

I get trading Thorny.... I get trading Q... I can even understand trading danks... and not resigning MB if we are rebuilding...

But giving up santos for a guy thats a fringe starter/maybe not as good as the guy you gave up reliever... is.... confounding.

Method · « **Reply #411 on:** December 06, 2011, 08:34:08 pm »

Is **** a censorable word?

Method · « **Reply #412 on:** December 06, 2011, 08:35:45 pm »

It seems that h o r n y is a censurable word... so is T*****....

I wonder if stupid****asshat is?

So how does one go about mention a bush that has too many thornes.... you know a thorny bush....

Method · « **Reply #413 on:** December 06, 2011, 08:37:30 pm »

It appears the word filter has improved.... now curse words that are part of another word are filtered... this could add a whole new wrinkle to the game.

The unintentional censor...

This new feature seems appropriate considering our new censoring overlords.

Juan pizzarro · « **Reply #414 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:17:30 pm »

"But giving up santos for a guy thats a fringe starter/maybe not as good as the guy you gave up reliever... is.... confounding"

How do you know that? How can you reach that conclusion hours after the trade from reading second and third hand reports? Santos was getting figured out in September, and Cooper knew that, and the guy we are getting took a big step forward, and the new international coach we got knows that. This guy was rated #18 in the Jays org at the beginning of this past year, given his performance this year, his stock rose greatly.

What do you know more than the people who are there who have all the facts? That is confounding.

Method · « **Reply #415 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:24:39 pm »

Actually... he was rated #2 in their organization before the year... and he DROPPED to #18 by the end of the year... that's what i got out of the second and 3rd hand reports atleast.

Sergio had his worst month in his 8 out of 63 innings in september... that also happened to be 12 innings more then hes ever pitched in one season in his life... him fading down the stretch is as likely due to fatigue as "getting figured out in september, and cooper knowing that"

I'm basing my statements on what i've read about Nester... how about your claim on what cooper knew about sergio getting figured out, yet somehow allowing the franchise to sign him to a prospective 6 year deal?

How about reading the articles and considering the facts before making such confounding statements....

Method · « **Reply #416 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:29:18 pm »

I'll say it again... Nothing against Nestor... But KW undersold his hand AGAIN.

this has the stink of a berry barry bad trade... it kinda reminds me of durham for adkins....

Juan pizzarro · « **Reply #417 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:36:11 pm »

I disagree, as I heard the MLB network on XM interviewing the minor league stat guy they always interview clearly say that Nester was #18 at the beginning of the year and would be near the top this year. Plus you got Cooper who knows Santos.

So instead of trading barbs, let's get that fact straight first. Maybe you are right maybe I am? But I wish you could stop jumping to immediate conclusions before you have all the facts proven.

Method · « **Reply #418 on:** December 06, 2011, 10:52:35 pm »

Ummm ok...

Sounds eggcellent... I got my info from Keith law on ESPN...

I also use this website a lot.. for prospect rankings... I like them because they keep track of their old lists... to show how well they do over time...

http://www.deepleagues.com/?p=3682

At the beginning of last year they didnt even have him in their top 250... in there latest rankings they have him at 83... which shows him improving over the course of last year

Baselball america is not nearly as optimistic about his performance... they dropped him over the course of the year.

Juan pizzarro · « **Reply #419 on:** December 06, 2011, 11:14:15 pm »

OK, you relied on Keith Law, that explains it for me. Law is the only guy who dumped the labor agreement within days of it being released, Almost everyone else in baseball had opposite oppinions. I work in that area too, so I have my oppinion. My respect for Law's views is near zero despite his Haaaavaad pedigree. He has a grudge against the Sox too, check some old posts.

Let's check back in a year.

josephc · « **Reply #420 on:** December 07, 2011, 08:02:27 am »

More "something to read" bits on the trade:

Quick read on Molina... 8:30 long video of him pitching included.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/6/2616005/blue-jays-trade-top-prospect-nestor-molina-to-white-sox-for-sergio

Quips from the blogosphere on Molina.... not sure where Method is getting his "two-pitch pitcher" reports from - maybe before the 2011 season, his first year as a starter?
http://soxbronzetitan.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/scouting-reports-on-newest-sox-rhp-nestor-molina/

...and a post on him from last August... same mixed reviews (pundits calling his stuff "average" and whatnot), with his pitching coach from New Hampshire saying he has "stuff has been as good as I’ve seen at this level. Devastating split."
http://theondeckcircle.net/2011/08/25/holy-hell-nestor-molina-prospect-watch/

Sickels also wrote a piece on why he ranked Molina the top pitching prospect for the Jays (dated 12/1)
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/12/1/2603007/further-thoughts-on-the-toronto-blue-jays-farm-system

To me, even a lot of the scouting reports are too varied to get a good read on this trade. It's clear KW & staff believe he has top-of-the-rotation stuff with his devastating splitter, a fastball that can touch 94~96, a good slider, and good straight change.
Others (Method included) are relying more on the assessment that he's a top-end relief prospect with #3~#4-starter upside.... if that's true, then this trade tilts heavily in Toronto's favor.

The bottom line is that:
1) The kid didn't start pitching until he was 19
2) The kid had been a reliever until 2011, so he likely was unable to showcase his slider and changeup.

The kid has flown under a lot of radars. Now that he's been moved, I'm expecting to start to see a LOT more on him for 2011.

Where's Rex when you need him in Birmingham???

josephc · « **Reply #421 on:** December 07, 2011, 08:10:54 am »

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/white_sox_trade_sergio_santos_for_blue_jays_prospect_molina/

More discussions over on BaseballThinkFactory.... Another "something to read."

boatdrink · « **Reply #422 on:** December 07, 2011, 08:53:30 am »

Anyone else see a lot of Octavio Dotel there?

josephc · « **Reply #423 on:** December 07, 2011, 09:05:12 am »

I hope more of a Derek Lowe, personally.... devastating splitter, a heavy fastball, and decent secondary stuff.

I hope.

WshflThinking · « **Reply #424 on:** December 07, 2011, 09:17:26 am »

I hope not Boat, but that could be exactly what we see. Maybe Coop can Cooperize him.